2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by ARobot77 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:37 am

I really liked the Jesse part of the episode. You can really feel his grief, and that he's hit rock-bottom and doesn't see the point of going on anymore. We don't know a lot about his personal life prior to this, but it's possible that Jane was the first semi-mature relationship that he had, and then he lost it all.

I think the whole plane-crash finale was a misstep in a lot of ways. There's a whole chain of other people's decisions (Jane's decision to shoot up, Donald going back to work when he's not ready, his supervisors letting him back in, the pilots of the two planes) that barely ties the crash back to Walt in any meaningful way. I think just going to the crack house showed the impact of drug abuse, without the over-the-top contrivance of the crash. Besides, there's a whole host of safety measures, both on the ground at Air Traffic Control, and up in the air onboard the planes, that wouldn't allow two commercial aircraft to collide in that manner.

I also thought that the special-effects and the Google-Earth type map of the city seemed a bit cheap and out of step with the usual mood of the series. And it was disappointing to have the events of the finale foreshadowed so strongly through the whole season, and then have it be something pretty random. Turns out the iconic two body bags aren't anyone really important to the characters, or the viewer. Kind of a let-down.

I thought the previous episode, Phoenix, would have made a much better finale, and I hope in the future Breaking Bad stays away from the overly-symbolic and heavy-handed 'coincidence', 'butterfly-effect', and 'karma'-type stuff which belongs on weaker productions.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Rob on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:44 am

From the Vince Gilligan Q&a

A: In my mind the wrath of God rained down on Walt's neighborhood. These two planes collided overhead and began to strew debris all over. As far as the glasses and all the other items we've seen, they're all from the plane. Right into Walt's backyard fell the pink teddy bear from some poor unknown little child on this plane. So it would follow that the body bags being zipped up are also what's left of folks who've fallen to Earth. If you look closely, those body bags are pretty empty. We can only assume they're little bits and pieces, and stuff better left to the imagination.

I guess that's it then, the body bags mean nothing. I cant believe the glasses aren't even Walt's though. I'm surprised the Pool alarm system Walt was going to buy didn't play into it either.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Lparsons7981 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:57 am

I actually couldn't really sleep last night, I was rather disturbed by what I saw. Instead of the deaths of a few people/characters we know in a been there done that shootout, Walt indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of innocent people in a horrific event that will traumatize himself, and the whole city of ABQ, and will be worldwide news. Anyone else worried for what will happen to Jesse if/when he sees Donald's face on TV (which it will inevitably be traced back too) he will blame himself.......dangerous.

I wouldn't be surprised if Carmen or one of his students was on the plane.

I still also can't explain my contempt for Skyler, she has been looking for an excuse to leave and ho it up with Ted, and yes, the lies must be hard, but she also must find it hard not to completely run Walt's life anymore.

I guess we'll find out next year.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:34 am

Lparsons7981 wrote:I actually couldn't really sleep last night, I was rather disturbed by what I saw. Instead of the deaths of a few people/characters we know in a been there done that shootout, Walt indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of innocent people in a horrific event that will traumatize himself, and the whole city of ABQ, and will be worldwide news. Anyone else worried for what will happen to Jesse if/when he sees Donald's face on TV (which it will inevitably be traced back too) he will blame himself.......dangerous.

I wouldn't be surprised if Carmen or one of his students was on the plane.

I still also can't explain my contempt for Skyler, she has been looking for an excuse to leave and ho it up with Ted, and yes, the lies must be hard, but she also must find it hard not to completely run Walt's life anymore.

I guess we'll find out next year.

yea i see skyler and ted hooking up next season... sadly i meen how skyler acted on the last episode and how she acts around ted its kinda obvious that it will happen also i thought it was freaking amazing how clever it was when vince said the thing about 737 down over abq

737 as in a plane and now that i think about it those were the only episodes with the black and white scenes and i thought it was pretty brilliant in my opinion i would have never thought of it for a while i might figured it out later though
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Rob on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:41 am

Remember the scene in 4 Days Out with the plane flying past? I wonder if that was a clue.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:45 am

Rob wrote:Remember the scene in 4 Days Out with the plane flying past? I wonder if that was a clue.
probably although when i saw all those lil scenes all i thought was like damn whos in the body bags hope its not walt or jesse all that really came to my mind when i first saw them anyway this episode was crazy but it was a episode were it would leave you really wanting to find out whats going to happen i meen jesse's in rehab skyler left knows all about walts lies.. most of them i meen man this episode really makes me sad to see its over for the year Sad
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by dole on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:46 am

Hi, new here but have been watching BB from the beginning and this seems to be the best place for chatter since IMDB is full of cockmeasurers and trolls.

trueblu8 wrote:
I KNOW! That was DOPE as HELL! He is one SMOOTH customer man. Didn't even bat an eye. Season 3 is going to be SO good.

Well, Gus kinda did bat an eye when Hank said the word "meth." Very Happy

ARobot77 wrote:Besides, there's a whole host of safety measures, both on the ground at Air Traffic Control, and up in the air onboard the planes, that wouldn't allow two commercial aircraft to collide in that manner.

I also thought that the special-effects and the Google-Earth type map of the city seemed a bit cheap and out of step with the usual mood of the series. And it was disappointing to have the events of the finale foreshadowed so strongly through the whole season, and then have it be something pretty random. Turns out the iconic two body bags aren't anyone really important to the characters, or the viewer. Kind of a let-down.

I don't think the finale was a letdown at all. A little too coincidental, sure, maybe even a little anti-climatic and not the explosion or shootout we'd all been imagining (or hoping) for, but somewhat poetic like the rest of the series. The suspension of belief in the plane crash is a bit much, but... it's TV. At least it's not asking us to suspend it to LOST proportions, I guess. I was satisfied that the finale didn't go completely over the top with any of the main characters to finish things out. Plenty of questions to leave us hanging for the next season:
- what's Gus going to do
- what's going to happen with Skylar and Walt
- what kind of person will Jesse be completely clean and will he stay that way
- what's going to happen to Donald

I thought the Google Earth map shot was awesome, like the Jesse Shooting Up shot, Tuco's teeth in the river, wide shots of the RV rambling through the brush. I'd hope the series gets some recognition for the beautiful cinematography involved... I'd love to have some as backgrounds more so than the obvious ones. If they keep at it, you could have a wonderful Breaking Bad coffee table book of just stills. It wasn't any more out of place than the fun Tejano video or Saul commercials. (Love having Bob Odenkirk on the show!)

I thought Season 1 was good, Season 2 definitely upped their game threefold. I wouldn't say that BB is the BEST EVAR but it's damn enjoyable. And for those comparing Weeds and BB, I enjoy Weeds for the humor and it IS a lot like Desperate Housewives... unfortunately I think Weeds' biggest problem has been getting away from the reason of the series: the drugs and game, and has focused a little too hard on the character relationships. It's fun watching the main characters' of both series rise to power, although I *was* worried when the finale opener showed the fires and I was thinking... "brushfires? WTF are those??" I've found recommending Weeds' to friends being harder as many get turned off by the preteniousness of it. "Look how COOL this show is! Aren't we COOL?! This is COOL SHIT right here!" But if you can get past that and turn your brain down a little, it's fun to keep up on. Hell, give me BB or Weeds over any major network series out there currently.


Last edited by dole on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:54 am

dole wrote:Hi, new here but have been watching BB from the beginning and this seems to be the best place for chatter since IMDB is full of cockmeasurers and trolls.

trueblu8 wrote:
I KNOW! That was DOPE as HELL! He is one SMOOTH customer man. Didn't even bat an eye. Season 3 is going to be SO good.

Well, Gus kinda did bat an eye when Hank said the word "meth." Very Happy

ARobot77 wrote:Besides, there's a whole host of safety measures, both on the ground at Air Traffic Control, and up in the air onboard the planes, that wouldn't allow two commercial aircraft to collide in that manner.

I also thought that the special-effects and the Google-Earth type map of the city seemed a bit cheap and out of step with the usual mood of the series. And it was disappointing to have the events of the finale foreshadowed so strongly through the whole season, and then have it be something pretty random. Turns out the iconic two body bags aren't anyone really important to the characters, or the viewer. Kind of a let-down.

I don't think the finale was a letdown at all. A little too coincidental, sure, maybe even a little anti-climatic and not the explosion or shootout we'd all been imagining (or hoping) for, but somewhat poetic like the rest of the series. The suspension of belief in the plane crash is a bit much, but... it's TV. At least it's not asking us to suspend it to LOST proportions, I guess. I was satisfied that the finale didn't go completely over the top with any of the main characters to finish things out. Plenty of questions to leave us hanging for the next season:
- what's Gus going to do
- what's going to happen with Skylar and Walt
- what kind of person will Jesse be completely clean and will he stay that way
- what's going to happen to Donald

I thought the Google Earth map shot was awesome, like the Jesse Shooting Up shot, Tuco's teeth in the river, wide shots of the RV rambling through the brush. I'd hope the series gets some recognition for the beautiful cinematography involved... I'd love to have some as backgrounds more so than the obvious ones. If they keep at it, you could have a wonderful Breaking Bad coffee table book of just stills.

I thought Season 1 was good, Season 2 definitely upped their game threefold. I wouldn't say that BB is the BEST EVAR but it's damn enjoyable. And for those comparing Weeds and BB, I enjoy Weeds for the humor and it IS a lot like Desperate Housewives... unfortunately I think Weeds' biggest problem has been getting away from the reason of the series: the drugs and game, and has focused a little too hard on the character relationships. It's enjoyable watching the main characters' of both series rise to power. I've found recommending Weeds' to friends being harder as many get turned off by the preteniousness of it. "Look how COOL this show is! Aren't we COOL?! This is COOL SHIT right here!" But if you can get past that and turn your brain down a little, it's fun to keep up on. Hell, give me BB or Weeds over any major network series out there currently.
in my opinion i do think breaking bad is the best show ever well that i have seen only true show that felt so real i cant get enough of it i was hooked from day 1 and never stoped watching
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by dole on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Shawn wrote:in my opinion i do think breaking bad is the best show ever well that i have seen only true show that felt so real i cant get enough of it i was hooked from day 1 and never stoped watching


I hate to say it because it probably shows my bias (or maybe simpleness) but I still regard The Wire as probably the best series I've had the pleasure to enjoy all the way through. I tried to say it's hard for me to pick just one but that one just stands out. It's a little early to say, but if the quality keeps going as it has been, that is: up, I could put BB up there with the Sopranos. A tall order, certainly, but I find myself looking forward to the next episode as much as I did with the Sopranos...
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Lparsons7981 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:26 pm

Eh, I'd say South Park, E.R, Malcolm in the Middle, and Breaking Bad are all my top series, and I can't really put an order to them either. They are all different and can't really be compared fairly.

I agree completely about the cinematography in BB. My sister watched the whole season 2 in 2 days, watched the finale last night and pointed out that the cinematography was the best she's seen on t.v, movie quality.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:34 pm

just re watched episode 1 and walt said he was going to see a exhibit on the mars rover photographs i think its pretty crazy how they have details from even episode 1 in episode 12 it feels like loads of parts are connected to other episodes its amazing

oh yea and when walt was at the car wash place and he saw that lady could that be gretchen?.. man im finding all this crap i didnt even think about back then lol
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Lparsons7981 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:43 pm

Shawn wrote:just re watched episode 1 and walt said he was going to see a exhibit on the mars rover photographs i think its pretty crazy how they have details from even episode 1 in episode 12 it feels like loads of parts are connected to other episodes its amazing

oh yea and when walt was at the car wash place and he saw that lady could that be gretchen?.. man im finding all this crap i didnt even think about back then lol

I noticed that too with the Mars rovers (and what was I watching on Nat-Geo channel before breaking bad last night? A show about the Mars Rovers Very Happy)

I don't think that was Gretchen, I'm pretty sure they live up in Santa Fe, so it's unlikely she would be at some car was in ABQ
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Lparsons7981 wrote:
Shawn wrote:just re watched episode 1 and walt said he was going to see a exhibit on the mars rover photographs i think its pretty crazy how they have details from even episode 1 in episode 12 it feels like loads of parts are connected to other episodes its amazing

oh yea and when walt was at the car wash place and he saw that lady could that be gretchen?.. man im finding all this crap i didnt even think about back then lol

I noticed that too with the Mars rovers (and what was I watching on Nat-Geo channel before breaking bad last night? A show about the Mars Rovers Very Happy)

I don't think that was Gretchen, I'm pretty sure they live up in Santa Fe, so it's unlikely she would be at some car was in ABQ

ya i guess your right on the gretchen part but it was weird maby he had no idea what was going on but it looked like he was looking at her
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by rkex on Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:06 pm

I think the whole plane-crash finale was a misstep in a lot of ways. There's a whole chain of other people's decisions (Jane's decision to shoot up, Donald going back to work when he's not ready, his supervisors letting him back in, the pilots of the two planes) that barely ties the crash back to Walt in any meaningful way.

I think this misses the point. It's not that Walt is entirely at fault for the plane crash, or Jane's addiction, etc. It's that Walt made decisions that have consequences to others. Many others, in the case of two planes full of people falling out of the sky.

Had Walt intervened and not let Jane die, the accident would not have happened. That's the point Vince Gilligan makes, that seemingly "small" decisions can have a ripple effect. I do believe that the story will include Walt finding out that the ATC was Jane's father, and that he will feel remorse and guilt, just as he does with the death of Jane, and with seeing Jesse's agony at losing her. But, as in your post, he will justify and minimalize his blame, as he has in so many things, and as most people would.

But make no mistake, the collision is a consequence of Walt's decision. He may be no more a murderer, technically, than he was when he watched as Jane aspirated, but he is a factor in the cause.

For those bemoaning the lack of a shootout with the cartel, I think that would have been very much "in the box". Vince Gilligan thinks outside the box, thank goodness. Sometimes way outside the box.

To say that it's not believable that the collission happens over Walt's house: the debris is spread out over half of Albuquerqe, not directed at the Whites' house. Did you see how far away the plumes of smoke were? (very cool scene, by the way, if you ask me).

And for those unwilling to suspend belief to allow for coincidence: coincidence can be overdone as a plot vehicle, but I haven't found any of them employed this season to be beyond the realm of believability. And it is, after all, a work of fiction, not documentary.

All in all, a fantastic finale to an incredible season. Emmies all around, please!

Ray
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by dannybva on Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:48 pm

Great episode, sorry I missed it last night. I had to fight the urge to check the forum first thing this morning and when I got home from work. The scene at the drug house, Donald's at the duplex, Skyler leaving (I thought she was going to find the phone when the toilet backed up), at Hank's office: holding up Walt's picture in such a way we thought it was a wanted poster, him knowing the real Heisenberg is still out there and he went regional the freakin Gus shows up. ONLY thing I didn't like was that the opener gave away that there was a plane crash. I guess the body bags are victims of the crash. But the glasses? A victims? Or does Walt lose his running for cover? I don't think he'll be a casualty.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by dannybva on Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:53 pm

rkex wrote:
To say that it's not believable that the collission happens over Walt's house: the debris is spread out over half of Albuquerqe, not directed at the Whites' house. Did you see how far away the plumes of smoke were? (very cool scene, by the way, if you ask me).


Ray

I remember when the Challenger exploded a guy in my class, I was in 6th grade, grandparents or some relation tool a picture of the smoke and sent it to him and they lived a good distance away. My sister used to live a little west of Tampa and she could go outside and when they launched a rocker or shuttle if it was clear she could see just about see the trail.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by Shawn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:33 pm

rkex wrote:
I think the whole plane-crash finale was a misstep in a lot of ways. There's a whole chain of other people's decisions (Jane's decision to shoot up, Donald going back to work when he's not ready, his supervisors letting him back in, the pilots of the two planes) that barely ties the crash back to Walt in any meaningful way.

I think this misses the point. It's not that Walt is entirely at fault for the plane crash, or Jane's addiction, etc. It's that Walt made decisions that have consequences to others. Many others, in the case of two planes full of people falling out of the sky.

Had Walt intervened and not let Jane die, the accident would not have happened. That's the point Vince Gilligan makes, that seemingly "small" decisions can have a ripple effect. I do believe that the story will include Walt finding out that the ATC was Jane's father, and that he will feel remorse and guilt, just as he does with the death of Jane, and with seeing Jesse's agony at losing her. But, as in your post, he will justify and minimalize his blame, as he has in so many things, and as most people would.

But make no mistake, the collision is a consequence of Walt's decision. He may be no more a murderer, technically, than he was when he watched as Jane aspirated, but he is a factor in the cause.

For those bemoaning the lack of a shootout with the cartel, I think that would have been very much "in the box". Vince Gilligan thinks outside the box, thank goodness. Sometimes way outside the box.

To say that it's not believable that the collission happens over Walt's house: the debris is spread out over half of Albuquerqe, not directed at the Whites' house. Did you see how far away the plumes of smoke were? (very cool scene, by the way, if you ask me).

And for those unwilling to suspend belief to allow for coincidence: coincidence can be overdone as a plot vehicle, but I haven't found any of them employed this season to be beyond the realm of believability. And it is, after all, a work of fiction, not documentary.

All in all, a fantastic finale to an incredible season. Emmies all around, please!

Ray
i think what walt did was right and wrong at the end of episode 12 when he told jesse that he was making a mistake and right at the ending were she was dieing i think he knew he had to do that for jesse i wont lie but i think jesse wouldnt have lived more then a few episodes more if jane was alive mainly because she isnt going to stop and he wouldnt either if she was around she said she was going to get clean but of course she did the heroin and died
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by mbox on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:46 am

The finale was good - but the plane crash felt a bit like a bait & switch. The show is very focused on Walt & Jesse's personal stories and as such, and the flash-forwards felt tied directly to them. Even the fate of Tuco's grill was tied to Hank directly. Jane's father isn't on that level with the main story, and while tragic in a grand sense the plane crash isn't the same punch in the gut it'd be if those body bags were tied to characters we knew.

Also, I will second that The Wire is the best hourlong show ever made. I only watched it recently because many commenters on AVClub said it was the only hourlong serial better than Breaking Bad. I thought Breaking Bad was as good as it got, so I felt compelled to watch all 5 seasons of The Wire (60 eps total).

The Wire handles its larger cast better to tell a more complete story from many angles with the same humor, drama, and unpredictability Breaking Bad has. However, it's not as intimate as Breaking Bad is with its two main characters. That being said, it does a far superior job of showing *major* consequences and the ripple effect of one's actions - and we get to know so many characters that we see how their lives are effected by other characters whose paths they never directly cross.

That is why the plane crash felt out of place. The story is about the lives of Walt and Jesse and the people around them. To show the ripple effect--well beyond the direct consequences they have to deal with--felt like a misstep outside of the show's strengths. Aside from Jane's death and her father's error, all one need do is follow the path of their product distribution to find an unlimited source of violence, addiction, etc. Those are all more directly tied to Walt and Jesse's day to day actions and the show has done a good job of letting us know they are there without overdoing it or shifting the focus.

I'm not condemning Vince Gilligan & company - I think they're still producing a fantastically unpredictable show...but the plane crash felt a little bit like a spectacle for the sake of spectacle. Jane's death would've probably been a stronger note to end on overall, IMHO.

And let me say again, if you love Breaking Bad and haven't watched The Wire, you're missing out. Your knowledge of the drug game from Breaking Bad will help you get a feel for things, and if you're like me, you'll think that Jesse must have watched all of The Wire which is why he adds "yo" so much to phrases.

Now if only he'd mention a "re-up" or two. Very Happy
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:13 am

Rob wrote:

  • The time skip was interesting, I like Walt's new look.
  • I liked the guy working for Saul, he was pretty understanding for a hired goon.
  • Yeah.
  • Me 2.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:57 am

dole wrote:Hi, new here but have been watching BB from the beginning and this seems to be the best place for chatter since IMDB is full of cockmeasurers and trolls.
LOL.

trueblu8 wrote:
I KNOW! That was DOPE as HELL! He is one SMOOTH customer man. Didn't even bat an eye. Season 3 is going to be SO good.
dole wrote:Well, Gus kinda did bat an eye when Hank said the word "meth." Very Happy
He did? I'm going to have to go back and watch that.

dole wrote:And for those comparing Weeds and BB, I enjoy Weeds for the humor and it IS a lot like Desperate Housewives... unfortunately I think Weeds' biggest problem has been getting away from the reason of the series: the drugs and game, and has focused a little too hard on the character relationships.
Yeah I would've liked to see more of the actual weed business myself, especially anything that has to do with growing as I find that extremely fascinating.

Great post dole and welcome to the forum. It's always great to have members like you here. Street Cred sent.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by rkex on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:24 am

I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I feel no disappointment at all in the finale. As far as I'm concerned there was no "bait and switch", and I think the episode is taking flak for NOT being predictable. To say that the consequences, two planes full of victims, is random and not connected to the story places plot restraints that, if they were followed, would make for boring, conventional television.

Tim Goodman of the San Francisco Chronicle nails it in his "The Bastard Machine" blog today:

As a fan, I wanted to see the piece fall neatly into place. But as a critic, I'd already watched 12 superbly nuanced episodes where real wonder took place. That critic part of me wanted some variation of the anti-end - something less neat, but no less satisfying and artistically impressive on some whole other, unexpected, level.

That I got.

and he goes on to say:

Which of course leads us to the surprise ending, which wasn't a "gotcha" moment, nor something that was excessively pimped out and ruined (can you imagine if this was on Fox?). What happened at Walt's house was not the unimagined terror many people expected. It was a connect-the-dots causal catastrophe that bears entirely on Walt.

I highly recommend that you read the Tim's review:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/tgoodman/detail?blogid=24&entry_id=40991#readmore

Goodman has been a great fan of Breaking Bad and has written fascinating deconstructions every week this season. I hope his take on Emmy nominations comes to bear.

Ray
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:35 am

dole wrote:I hate to say it because it probably shows my bias (or maybe simpleness) but I still regard The Wire as probably the best series I've had the pleasure to enjoy all the way through. I tried to say it's hard for me to pick just one but that one just stands out. It's a little early to say, but if the quality keeps going as it has been, that is: up, I could put BB up there with the Sopranos. A tall order, certainly, but I find myself looking forward to the next episode as much as I did with the Sopranos...
Hmmm... I liked the Sopranos too, but it was a little slow moving for my tastes. Breaking Bad also had some slow episodes during the 1st season. I was so pleasantly surprised when they had improved upon that in the 2nd season and there were no slow episodes, just fucking fantastic all the way through. Sopranos did have it's moments though, I'll say that, like in the finale when Phil Leotardo's head gets crushed like a melon under the tire of his wife's car (was that his wife I don't remember) and then some random guy in the gas station who witnessed it was so grossed out by seeing phil's head get crushed he starts puking all over the place. Oh man that was so classic. LOL.

Haven't really watched The Wire much but am thinking that maybe I should. I only caught part of this episode one time where this one cop's lying in bed with his girlfriend telling her that "you're the best thing that's ever happened to me baby, since I met you I've stopped with the drinking and whoring etc.". Kind of reminded me of myself. LOL.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:44 am

rkex wrote:To say that it's not believable that the collission happens over Walt's house: the debris are spread out over half of Albuquerque, not directed at the Whites' house. Did you see how far away the plumes of smoke were? (very cool scene, by the way, if you ask me).

And for those unwilling to suspend belief to allow for coincidence: coincidence can be overdone as a plot vehicle, but I haven't found any of them employed this season to be beyond the realm of believability. And it is, after all, a work of fiction, not documentary.

All in all, a fantastic finale to an incredible season. Emmies all around, please!

Ray
Exactly. Thanks Ray.

rkex wrote:I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I feel no disappointment at all in the finale.
Ray
You are not. It was PERFECT, or as Gus would say "EXCELLENT".

rkex wrote:I highly recommend that you read the Tim's review:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/tgoodman/detail?blogid=24&entry_id=40991#readmore
Ray
Holy shit Ray! That review was AWESOME, and quite possibly the BEST I have EVER read.

"In the season finale, the show was in the home stretch - and it delivered."

I couldn't agree more with his words there. And I liked his comparing Breaking Bad to a horse that you were betting on in a race and weren't sure if it was going to disappoint you or not. Tim Goodman is GOOD man! LOL. Thanks for the great read!
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by rkex on Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:51 pm

I'm sure many of you read these reviews regularly, but here are some of my favotites that I read every week (In addition to the aforementioned Tim Goodman). They seem to be unanimous in their praise of Breaking Bad:

The House Next Door

http://www.thehousenextdooronline.com/2009/06/breaking-bad-mondays-season-2-ep-13-abq.html

AV Club

http://www.avclub.com/articles/abq,28609/?utm_source=channel_tv

What's Alan Watching

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/05/breaking-bad-abq-seven-thirty-seven.html

Ray
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by mbox on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:42 pm

trueblu8 wrote:
Haven't really watched The Wire much but am thinking that maybe I should. I only caught part of this episode one time where this one cop's lying in bed with his girlfriend telling her that "you're the best thing that's ever happened to me baby, since I met you I've stopped with the drinking and whoring etc.". Kind of reminded me of myself. LOL.

That's what got me to finally break down and download all 5 seasons: All the love the AV Club has given it, especially in the Breaking Bad comments. And now I totally understand why, because it's a highly satisfactory viewing experience that pays off all its layer and connections to tell a full and complete story.

But it's one of those shows you can't just jump into mid-stream, you really need to watch it from the beginning and it works more like a novel in that each episode of the season is a chapter and doesn't necessarily adhere to its own 3-act structure. In fact, I think Breaking Bad is a better *episodic* series in how it manages to give each episode its own payoff and sets up a cliffhanger as to leave you wondering what happens next.

However, if you're watching the episodes on DVD in one sitting, that really doesn't come into play since you can just flow right into the next.

As an aside, is anyone else hoping AMC pushes up the start date for Breaking Bad Season 3?
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by wtwhizz on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:10 pm

Well I'm not going to begrudge anyone that enjoyed the ending, but it was definitely a bait and switch. It also wasn't very original.

When you start the season off with a burned up teddy bear and then throw in two body bags, you're basically implying to the audience that two characters have died. It doesn't have to be Walt or Jesse or whatever, but you're basically telling the audience that two people that have showed up on screen and that you've come to know over the past season are getting the axe. When you don't pay that off and instead have a completely contrived midair collision between two planes, it's a bit cheesy and fans should have a right to be upset with it.

Also, this whole "flash forward" thing where we see bits and pieces of the finale and it slowly comes together over the season? Yeah. Not original at all. Damages has been doing that for both its first two seasons and they actually did it better and paid it off to a large extent. They didn't reveal EVERYTHING once they showed you the entire ending, but they did show you a lot and it actually directly tied into the main characters and what they were hinting at, etc.

My big problem with the plane crash ending, other than the BS bait and switch tactic, is basically a philosophical point. This show already completely condemns drug use, drug peddling, etc. It's is SO over the top it's unbelievable. I've done illegal drugs (nothing as hardcore as meth or heroin thank goodness). I know people that sell illegal drugs. Are they pillars of the community and completely Zen-like in their existence? Of course not. Are they horrible, broken down people that shoot others, liquify their dead bodies in acid, get into shootouts in the desert, explode things, or let people choke on their own vomit. They live normal lives and they actually are a lot more sane, rational, and better people than a lot of "normal" folks I know who have "normal" jobs. Obviously this is TV and so it's supposed to be over-the-top and nobody expects it to be exactly as it is in real life. Still, I think Vince and the writers have been promoting this idea that they're really trying to show how meth tears people, families, etc. apart and how there are all these "consequences" for getting into that lifestyle, right? They've admitted that's one of the main motivations behind the show.

Ok, well, I'm down with that to an extent. I agree that people who become meth addicts (which actually contrary to popular opinion constitute a rather low percentage out of everyone that uses or has used meth) aren't living a healthy lifestyle. I'll agree that there is violence associated with the sale of these drugs (mainly because they're illegal and so people have to go to shady folks to get the drugs and because those shady people have to protect their product and money with guns and violence because they're clandestine and hiding from the law). Still, this whole "Walt cooked meth and let some drug addict die so a plane crashed!" is rather ridiculous. It reminds me WAY too much of the bogus government sponsored drug ads on TV that are all like "If you smoke marijuana you're supporting terrorism! You'll become a loser and all your friends will hate you! You'll get high and accidentally run over kids riding their bikes at a fast food joint!"

I hate when the government force feeds that bullshit to the populace. They won't say a goddamn word about cigarettes which kill 425,000 people annually or alcohol which kills 75,000 people annually (not to mention all the DWI related deaths). Hell, even fast food joints that are slowly killing millions of Americans each year. Oh, no! It's ecstasy, and heroin, and meth which kill all of like 1000 people each year that they rant and rave about. It's a bogus double standard and I think Breaking Bad, especially with this whole airplane nonsense feeds into that a bit. I mean, what does an airplane crash immediately remind you of? 9/11. Which in a subconscious way ties Walt into being some sort of evil terrorist.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the show. I still think the acting and writing are superb. I just didn't enjoy that ending and the connotations it brought up. I loved the Jesse and Walt hug in the crack house. That was amazing acting and really got me choked up, especially when Walt called Jesse "son" and when Jesse told Walt how he loved Jane more than anything. The confrontation between Walt and Skylar was amazing, too. Personally, I think Skylar is almost as much at fault as Walt is. She's obviously bossed him around and treated him like dirt for their entire marriage. She's actively worked to wiggle her way back into Ted's life and give herself a "backup plan" so to speak as well. Then of course, this is excluding the whole "I know you're committing tax fraud but I'm upset at my husband and want to bone you so I'm going to ignore it.

I think it's becoming more and more apparent that Walt and Skylar probably both made a bad decision to get married. Walt was this big-shot chemist who was really in love with Gretchen. Skylar obviously had a thing for her boss Ted back in the day, probably before she met Walt.

On a side note? Walt. Dude. When you see an explosion in the sky and huge pieces of debris raining down from the heavens. . .GET THE HELL INSIDE THE HOUSE! He's just out that taking a gander like it's no big thing and like there isn't tons of hot and sharp metal falling to the ground at excessive speeds.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by rkex on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:55 pm

Welcome, Whizz-

wtwhizz wrote:Well I'm not going to begrudge anyone that enjoyed the ending, but it was definitely a bait and switch. It also wasn't very original.

And I won't begrudge you your opinion on the ending, either.

When you don't pay that off and instead have a completely contrived midair collision between two planes, it's a bit cheesy and fans should have a right to be upset with it.

It's hard for me to understand how they didn't pay off. I didn't think the end was cheesy. I thought it was an obscure and extreme slant on how decisions can have a ripple effect.

Also, this whole "flash forward" thing where we see bits and pieces of the finale and it slowly comes together over the season? Yeah. Not original at all.

Heck, they've been tipping their hat at Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Flight of the Phoenix, The Sopranos... I doubt that Vince Gilligan would claim to have invented the "flash forward". Maybe to some it was too contrived, but I enjoyed the buzz it created. As for whether it paid off, see above.

My big problem with the plane crash ending, other than the BS bait and switch tactic, is basically a philosophical point. This show already completely condemns drug use, drug peddling, etc. It's is SO over the top it's unbelievable. I've done illegal drugs (nothing as hardcore as meth or heroin thank goodness). I know people that sell illegal drugs.


I enjoy illegal drugs, even in my middle age, and have tried more than my share. I totally agree with you about the people I know who enjoy the occasional illicit substance without becoming deadbeats. Of course, cooking 40 pounds of crystal is a little different than recreational use. I have seen friends decimated by meth use (and cocaine, too, back a few years). And I know people who have ruined their lives by getting into legal trouble around drugs and the dumb things they do when high. So there's some truth to both extremes. I think the show has done a pretty good job showing some sides (like the Spooges' kid) and a really silly job in other areas (the shooting gallery that looks like a circus side show from Caligula).

Still, this whole "Walt cooked meth and let some drug addict die so a plane crashed!" is rather ridiculous.


Is not.

It's fiction. Pretty good fiction, too, IMHO.

It reminds me WAY too much of the bogus government sponsored drug ads on TV that are all like "If you smoke marijuana you're supporting terrorism! You'll become a loser and all your friends will hate you! You'll get high and accidentally run over kids riding their bikes at a fast food joint!"

I sure as hell hope that Vince Gilligan isn't trying to propagandize. As a drug user, I haven't felt that kind of "Just Say No" bullcrap from the show.

I hate when the government force feeds that bullshit to the populace. They won't say a goddamn word about cigarettes which kill 425,000 people annually or alcohol which kills 75,000 people annually (not to mention all the DWI related deaths).


Now you're making me feel guilty and self-destructive for smoking Marlboros and drinking way too many Schraderbraus. I will strive to clean up my act. No promises, though. I can't afford three weeks at "Serenity" for my rehab.

I mean, what does an airplane crash immediately remind you of? 9/11. Which in a subconscious way ties Walt into being some sort of evil terrorist.


9/11? I hadn't even thought of that. It was the main selling point by a certain political party for two election cycles (with likely more to come). But then, it didn't work out very well for them. Hopefully, Breaking Bad won't be relying on too many more mid-air collisions to advance the plot.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the show. I still think the acting and writing are superb.


I'm with you there, brother!

I loved the Jesse and Walt hug in the crack house. That was amazing acting and really got me choked up, especially when Walt called Jesse "son" and when Jesse told Walt how he loved Jane more than anything.


That got to me, and I can't say enough about Aaron Paul's acting in those scenes. Absolutely heartbreaking.

The confrontation between Walt and Skylar was amazing, too. Personally, I think Skylar is almost as much at fault as Walt is. She's obviously bossed him around and treated him like dirt for their entire marriage. She's actively worked to wiggle her way back into Ted's life and give herself a "backup plan" so to speak as well. Then of course, this is excluding the whole "I know you're committing tax fraud but I'm upset at my husband and want to bone you so I'm going to ignore it.

Excellent point. Look what happened when she let Ted explain away his criminal activity (to the tune of over a million). That's why she doesn't want to hear Walt's justification (for $100K), even if it started out as a way to provide for his family (It's way past that now). But she is being hypocritical.

On a side note? Walt. Dude. When you see an explosion in the sky and huge pieces of debris raining down from the heavens. . .GET THE HELL INSIDE THE HOUSE! He's just out that taking a gander like it's no big thing and like there isn't tons of hot and sharp metal falling to the ground at excessive speeds.

Ha! How true! Of course, we don't know what happened to Walt as the big ol' jet airliners came down, but we know he lives on for another season. In fairness, I'd probably be too much in shock to move! And I doubt the house would be a safe place.

Anyway, thanks for an excellent post. It was nice discussing "ABQ" with you. I look forward to many more debates next year!

Ray


Last edited by rkex on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added a pinch of Cayenne pepper)
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:58 am

wtwhizz wrote:I know people that sell illegal drugs. Are they pillars of the community and completely Zen-like in their existence? Of course not. Are they horrible, broken down people that shoot others, liquify their dead bodies in acid, get into shootouts in the desert, explode things, or let people choke on their own vomit. They live normal lives and they actually are a lot more sane, rational, and better people than a lot of "normal" folks I know who have "normal" jobs.
Totally agree with you here.

wtwhizz wrote:I'll agree that there is violence associated with the sale of these drugs (mainly because they're illegal and so people have to go to shady folks to get the drugs and because those shady people have to protect their product and money with guns and violence because they're clandestine and hiding from the law).
110% True.

wtwhizz wrote:On a side note? Walt. Dude. When you see an explosion in the sky and huge pieces of debris raining down from the heavens. . .GET THE HELL INSIDE THE HOUSE! He's just out there taking a gander like it's no big thing and like there isn't tons of hot and sharp metal falling to the ground at excessive speeds.
LOL! No shit.

I was initially pissed at you for not liking the season finale but you presented your argument so intelligently that I just had to forgive you. LOL. Shit I even had to give you some more Street Cred God damn it. And that's funny 'cause when I read the first few sentences I was like uh-oh he didn't like the finale I really don't want to do it but I'm going to have to neg rep this guy. J/K. Wink
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:23 am

rkex wrote:
wtwhizz wrote:I loved the Jesse and Walt hug in the crack house. That was amazing acting and really got me choked up, especially when Walt called Jesse "son" and when Jesse told Walt how he loved Jane more than anything.
That got to me, and I can't say enough about Aaron Paul's acting in those scenes. Absolutely heartbreaking.
Yeah and how about that desolute look on his face when they're both by the pool in the Serenity Rehab and he tells Walt "Now I know what you meant when you said I deserve this", that was some damn fine acting.

rkex wrote:
wtwhizz wrote:It reminds me WAY too much of the bogus government sponsored drug ads on TV that are all like "If you smoke marijuana you're supporting terrorism! You'll become a loser and all your friends will hate you! You'll get high and accidentally run over kids riding their bikes at a fast food joint!"
I sure as hell hope that Vince Gilligan isn't trying to propagandize. As a drug user, I haven't felt that kind of "Just Say No" bullcrap from the show.
Yeah I hope to God he doesn't do that shit either. As a fellow weed smoker I don't think that he will. I think he will just maintain some kind of neutral ground, which is excellent. I really haven't felt the "Just Say No" bullcrap yet either. Well maybe just a little bit when Jesse stomped his little bro's joint into the ground, but hey I wouldn't want my little bro smokin' weed if it was interfering with school either. It was wasn't it? I'll have to go back and watch that ep again.

rkex wrote:(Reason for editing : Added a pinch of Cayenne pepper)
LOL. Good one dude! Or as Jesse would say "I added a little bit of chili powder" as Walt rolls his eyes. Rolling Eyes
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

Post by trueblu8 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:21 am

Walt's house: +35.126104, -106.536533.
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Re: 2x13 #20 Finale "ABQ" 31 May 2009

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